Conquest Forums – Simultaneous Turn-Based Strategy Game

[Karla]

I'm looking for people willing to play test matches where we could examine how different unit combinations (especialy flanks) fair against common opponent unit combinations.
Simply put, I wanna test flank and normal combos since I've recently found quite a few interesting ones (e.g. a trooper and a tank flanking a tank results in the loss of a trooper only, if i remember right).
Moreover, flanks in mountains would also have to be considered.

So if anyone is up for that post what times you'd be up for doing that.
The matches will take place on unofficial servers, so even demos can take part in the experiment.

[Szeral]

Yep, let's do that, probably a stupid question, but you are aware if the unit combo's in the expert guide on the wiki?
And I think when you flank a tank with a trooper and a tank you lose nothing and kill the tank.

EDIT: I'll probably be online from 8 pm gmt 0 onwards. And now of course if you're here ^^

[Wrannie]

After confirming yesterday that randomly doing things in the game has no chance of winning I've been reading the stuff on the wiki again...and I'm confused :P

Well, I guess the battle algorithm is not exactly simple.
For example (according to unit power relations), 1 bomber = 1 trooper + 1 tank in plains, expert guide has the bomber standing. So I assume it can't be just the sum that counts. Do you use some hit points and priority target logic then?


PS Don't bother replying yet - kinda missed the battle algorithm article. Will ask more later :)

[Wrannie]

OK - still confused.

Now the winner's surviving power is determined. This is simply done by dividing the winner's least power-up-against value by the second least power-up-against value, subtracting this value from 1 and multiplying the result with the total power of the winner's army.

Blue sentence gives me headache - least...second least?

We divide the bomber's value of 3 by the trooper and tanks value of 3.75, which results in 0.8. Subtracted from 1 and multiplied by 3, the winner's surviving power in our earlier example is 0.6.

To me it seems you just divided loser's power by winner's power. 3/3,75

Let's assume we had two troopers and two tanks versus this bomber. While troopers and tanks are still up against a power of 3.75, the bomber's power-up-against value is now 6 (2 * 1 * 1.5 + 2 * 2 * 0.75). This means the bomber loses the battle, and, after applying the above calculations, the winner's surviving power results in 2.25.

Here I see the same - loser's power divided by winner's power and so on --> 6*(1 - 3,75/6)

As the troopers were up against a power of only 1/3 * 2.25 = 0.75 and the tanks against 2/3 * 4.5 = 3, we're aiming for a trooper to tank return ratio of 4:1; but with only two troopers fighting for us in the battle, we simply buy both, reducing our budget from 2.25 to 0.25. This result is neither negative nor zero, so we also get a tank back (budget goes from 0.25 to -1.75) and now the algorithm terminates.

That is understandable.

So did I understand this correctly or just managed to make up fitting equations?

Also

If both power-up-against values are identical, the winner's power-up-against value is scaled down by a small fraction before the division.

Thought in this case both armies are destroyed?

[void]

I'm not sure I understand the second/third question and just hope the following explanation contains the answers:

Assume three players participate in a battle, first one being up against power A, second one against power B, third one against power C, with A < B < C.

To determine the multiplier for the surviving power of the first player (who is the winner, because he was up against the least power), we calculate 1.0 - A / B. We divide by B, because it was the second least power-up-against value.

Now the surviving power of the first player equals raw power * (1.0 - A / B). It basically means: If you are, for example, up against one-third of the enemy's power, two-third of your units (in raw power) will survive.

In case of equal power-up-against values, both armies indeed die and it results in a draw - the wiki is outdated.

[Wrannie]

Oh, I was considering just the case of 2 players. Have to start small :)

Anyway, I just realized my hopes to fast calculate outcome can go to hell - with troops variations and increasing number of players it just gets too complicated (unless you're a math genius or autistic and can just 'see' the outcome). Guess best way is just to play many games and get an intuitive feeling. Don't think trying to memorize the combos from the beginning is also an option. I suppose with game experience one will learn to recognize situations.

However, the single battles probably have subordinate meaning to general tactics.

Well, the game is a challenge indeed :)

[void]

Yup, that's pretty much exactly how it is.

As a good basic rule, check what unit type forms the main body of an enemy squad, and then move against it primarily with the specific counter type (trooper < tank < bomber < trooper).

[Karla]

Forgot to add that you should also post any interesting flank or non-flank, mountain and non mountain combos you encounter.